End of Christianity...

**Gotch** · April 9th, 2009, 05:30 PM

My totals came from a U.S. government site. Can't find it now? Probably an Obama conspiracy.......

**Biggin** · April 9th, 2009, 05:33 PM

More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined it wasnt word for word, my mistake

and its a radical site based on attacking and defiling the muslim religion.
the kkk is a radical organization based on attacking and defiling all different kinds of ethnicities. whats the difference? both speak hate and non-acceptance towards a specific group of people.

**Biggin** · April 9th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gotch

My totals came from a U.S. government site. Can't find it now? Probably an Obama conspiracy.......

which facts? there is no real standard answer to how many people were killed in the inquisitions, so i assume you are talking about the terrorist attacks.

well, its the same amount, about 5000 people. its a minimal difference either way, so to put that quote up is misleading imo

**Gotch** · April 9th, 2009, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined it wasnt word for word, my mistake

and its a radical site based on attacking and defiling the muslim religion.
the kkk is a radical organization based on attacking and defiling all different kinds of ethnicities. whats the difference? both speak hate and non-acceptance towards a specific group of people.

So by your standard the internet infidels site and most other atheist sites are racist due to their attacking and defiling the Christian religion?

You do know that Muslim isn't a race?

**Biggin** · April 9th, 2009, 05:39 PM

theres a difference between portraying a certain set of people as savage people who have no conscience, making stereotypical jokes, etc.. and trying to debunk certain parts of a religion.

are you serious? racism is the word i used because it best fits the definitions as we are discussing it, what word would be better? religious hatespeak? yeah, but who wants to type that out every time? i figured youd get the idea

**Gotch** · April 9th, 2009, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

which facts? there is no real standard answer to how many people were killed in the inquisitions, so i assume you are talking about the terrorist attacks.

well, its the same amount, about 5000 people. its a minimal difference either way, so to put that quote up is misleading imo

Yes, talking a terrorist deaths.

It's actually been higher than 5,000 every year for many years. It's not misleading. It's correct.

Do you realize the inequity of your argument? 5,000 deaths in the inquisition comes to about 1.4 per month. 5,000 in 10 weeks comes to 2,000 per month.

**Gotch** · April 9th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

theres a difference between portraying a certain set of people as savage people who have no conscience, making stereotypical jokes, etc.. and trying to debunk certain parts of a religion.

are you serious? racism is the word i used because it best fits the definitions as we are discussing it, what word would be better? religious hatespeak? yeah, but who wants to type that out every time? i figured youd get the idea

You are not being honest. Or are assuming what appears on the site, one or the other. Although I've not scoured the site, I have found less offensive speak toward Islam than exists at many atheist sites aimed toward the Christian faith.

In fact I've never seen anything there that qualifies as "hate-speak".

**R13** · April 9th, 2009, 05:50 PM

There's two sides to the "Crusades". Chrisitians will say it was defensive and others will say that it was just them taking out whoever who wasn't them. I'll take the latter since they killed pagans, jews, enemies of the pope and plenty of others, not just muslims. The crusaders were told to kill those people in exchange for a clean slate with their sins, I wouldn't call that a "defensive" tactic. I know the religion was growing, but I haven't heard of 75 percent of the world - they were taking over the Byzantine(sp) Empire of course.

As for the science part, they don't really go hand and hand at all when it comes to how we got here. Though evolution still is a theory, I'd say it has a lot more facts to it then Adam and Eve. Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind, those aren't my words btw.

**Gotch** · April 9th, 2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Burton13

There's two sides to the "Crusades". Chrisitians will say it was defensive and others will say that it was just them taking out whoever who wasn't them. I'll take the latter since they killed pagans, jews, enemies of the pope and plenty of others, not just muslims. The crusaders were told to kill those people in exchange for a clean slate with their sins, I wouldn't call that a "defensive" tactic. I know the religion was growing, but I haven't heard of 75 percent of the world - they were taking over the Byzantine(sp) Empire of course.

As for the science part, they don't really go hand and hand at all when it comes to how we got here. Though evolution still is a theory, I'd say it has a lot more facts to it then Adam and Eve. Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind, those aren't my words btw.

Here is a cut and paste; I don't have time to type it myself. I will stand by it as accurate:

630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca from his base in Medina.

632 - Muhammad dies in Medina. Islam controls the Hijaz.

636 - conquest of Syria. Victory in battle over the Byzantines gives Syria and the surrounding lands, all Christian - including Palestine and Iraq - to the Caliph.

636 - 642 Persia conquered by the Muslims.

642 - conquest of Egypt. The Arab/Muslim conquest moves west along North Africa into hitherto non-Arab/non-Muslim lands.

711 - Tariq (after whom Gibraltar is named: the Rock of Tariq - Gib al-Tariq) invades Spain. The Muslim conquest moves into Europe.
718 - conquest of Spain complete.
732 - Muslim invasion of France is stopped at the Battle of Poitiers (also called the Battle of Tours). This is regarded as one of the turning points in world history. The Franks, under their leader Charles Martel (the grandfather of Charlemagne), defeat the Muslims and turn them back out of France.

Thus, in exactly 100 years, from the death of The Prophet in 632, to 732, the Arab/Muslim realm has extended from the Hijaz, a province in Arabia, to encompass Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Persia, Egypt, the North African littoral, Spain and, temporarily, part of France. The first European interaction with Islam is with Islam in the role of a conquering army, and, in the case of Spain, one that comes to stay. Spain becomes a Muslim colony. Over several hundred years, Spain is reconquered - the reconquista - for Christendom. The last Moors are expelled in 1492 by Ferdinand and Isabella.

Flash forwar: My words

1453 - Muslim Turks conquer Christian Constantinople and make it the seat of the Caliphate
1456 - Muslims conquer Athens
1478 - Serbia, Bosnia, Crimea come under Ottoman control
1480 - Otranto in Italy taken by the Ottomans
1529 - Vienna besieged by the Ottomans
1683 - Battle of Vienna. The Turks are defeated by the Polish king Jan Sobieski leading a combined Polish-Lithuanian army. This is the high-water-mark of Turkish/Muslim conquest of Europe from the East.